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afghanistan. >> not my clients who have no relation. no one has alleged that my clients have any relationship to terrorism. >> bill: if your clients were really sensitive to the sufferings of the 9/11 family they would move it three blocks away. >> how many blocks is enough? is three enough? take it back to my ancestor in nazi germany. >> bill: stop stop stop. >> foundries, ghettos. >> bill: i will get a site for you three blocks away. will you build it there? >> why? they have a place. >> bill: sensitive to people who lost loved ones. >> what about the community nearby who wants. >> bill: they can't walk three blocks? >> why. >> bill: because it's offensive. >> it's not al qaeda mosque a muslim mosque. 1.6 million muslims that are peaceful. that have nothing to do. >> bill: if i can find you a site three blocks away and say i'm not going to do it. people know you have an agenda, period. >> don't you as someone who stands up every day for the first amendment and freedom of religion want them to build something where they want to pray an
afghanistan. >> not my clients who have no relation. no one has alleged that my clients have any relationship to terrorism. >> bill: if your clients were really sensitive to the sufferings of the 9/11 family they would move it three blocks away. >> how many blocks is enough? is three enough? take it back to my ancestor in nazi germany. >> bill: stop stop stop. >> foundries, ghettos. >> bill: i will get a site for you three blocks away. will you build it...
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Jul 23, 2011
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afghanistan. >> not my clients who have no relation. no one has alleged that my clients have any relationship to terrorism. >> bill: if your clients were really sensitive to the sufferings of the 9/11 family they would move it three blocks away. >> how many blocks is enough? is three enough? take it back to my ancestor in nazi germany. >> bill: stop stop stop. >> foundries, ghettos. >> bill: i will get a site for you three blocks away. will you build it there? >> why? they have a place. >> bill: sensitive to people who lost loved ones. >> what about the community nearby who wants. >> bill: they can't walk three blocks? >> why. >> bill: because it's offensive. >> it's not al qaeda mosque a muslim mosque. 1.6 million muslims that are peaceful. that have nothing to do. >> bill: if i can find you a site three blocks away and say i'm not going to do it. people know you have an agenda, period. >> don't you as someone who stands up every day for the first amendment and freedom of religion want them to build something where they want to pray an
afghanistan. >> not my clients who have no relation. no one has alleged that my clients have any relationship to terrorism. >> bill: if your clients were really sensitive to the sufferings of the 9/11 family they would move it three blocks away. >> how many blocks is enough? is three enough? take it back to my ancestor in nazi germany. >> bill: stop stop stop. >> foundries, ghettos. >> bill: i will get a site for you three blocks away. will you build it...
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Jul 24, 2011
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first up, president obama faced critical decisions on the debt and afghanistan the last few weeks and all the while the geniuses who ran his 2008 campaign have been huddled with their maps and polls, figuring out how to put together a repeat victory. what's the anatomy of a re-election win for obama. he has 4-5, 81% of the people who voted for him last night according to a june nbc poll. what happened to the other 20% of obama's 2008 voters and how does he win them back? let's look at three skenl elements in the anatomy of the obama electorate. in the 2008 exit polls, obama got 66% of voters under 30. now he has just 56% of the under 30's. good? maybe not good enough. another key in the anatomy, suburban voters. any 08 exit polls, 50% of suburbanites went for obama. now he's down to 141%. final will laveragee pin in the obama win n '08 he had 52% of independents. now he has just 43% of independents. john, you wrote game changer about how he did it last time. how do they put, the geniuses out there in chicago and washington, humenty dumpty together again? >> they will be happy to hear
first up, president obama faced critical decisions on the debt and afghanistan the last few weeks and all the while the geniuses who ran his 2008 campaign have been huddled with their maps and polls, figuring out how to put together a repeat victory. what's the anatomy of a re-election win for obama. he has 4-5, 81% of the people who voted for him last night according to a june nbc poll. what happened to the other 20% of obama's 2008 voters and how does he win them back? let's look at three...
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Jul 17, 2011
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a lot of developments now to tell, but in afghanistan. we're learning general david petraeus will officially hand over command to lieutenant john allen tomorrow. to become the nation's 22nd director of the usa. in kabul, win of karzai' senior advisors was hurd murdered in his home and an advisor was also killed in the attack carried by two woman wearing suicide guest vests. nateos ended in an air strike on schools where the fighters were taking cover. more than a dozen of them killed. but, fortunately, no children inside at the time. n.a.t.o. also lost three service members in two separate roadside bombings. on a note of progress. international military troops handed over control of one of the most peaceful provinces in afghanistan to police. casey anthony walking free. where to and what's next for the 25-year-old mom who once faced the death penalty. the story is not over yet. geraldo will be joining us, plus, not the kind ever parking job anybody really wants to do. how the bus ended up slamming into a salvation army store. and for anyb
a lot of developments now to tell, but in afghanistan. we're learning general david petraeus will officially hand over command to lieutenant john allen tomorrow. to become the nation's 22nd director of the usa. in kabul, win of karzai' senior advisors was hurd murdered in his home and an advisor was also killed in the attack carried by two woman wearing suicide guest vests. nateos ended in an air strike on schools where the fighters were taking cover. more than a dozen of them killed. but,...
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Jul 22, 2011
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american taxpayer dollars are vanishing in afghanistan. likely in the hands of those trying to kill our troops. that is according to a new audit. the u.s. agencies limited oversight on the cash that enters the afghan economy, leaving it open to fraud, or diversion to the insurgency. late this afternoon, the senate unanimously passed a bill to extend the term of f.b.i. director robert mueller by two years. number of republicans originally voiced concerns, but by this morning, kentucky senator rand paul was the lone hold-out. after meeting with mueller, paul was satisfied. the president must formally send up the nomination. fear of pirates is having a big impact on the world economy. we will explain. but first, early look at president obama's re-election effort. @@ this just in. friday, the pentagon will appeal the controversial "don't ask, don't tell" policy that has kept gays from openly serving in the military. according to the law, a 60-day waiting period goes in effect for the policy is officially implemented. other words, in two months
american taxpayer dollars are vanishing in afghanistan. likely in the hands of those trying to kill our troops. that is according to a new audit. the u.s. agencies limited oversight on the cash that enters the afghan economy, leaving it open to fraud, or diversion to the insurgency. late this afternoon, the senate unanimously passed a bill to extend the term of f.b.i. director robert mueller by two years. number of republicans originally voiced concerns, but by this morning, kentucky senator...
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Jul 20, 2011
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this is about taking care of the wars in the iraq and afghanistan, it's about taking care of those bush tax cuts, it's about taking care of the medicare prescription drug bill. all those costs. and to say we're going to forget about those and worry about the future when our kids are the ones that will suffer is irresponsible. so i don't think the president would want to act unilaterally, nor do i think congress has to force the president into acting unilaterally. we can get this done. this is a manufactured crisis because for seven different occasions under president bush, under 17 or 18 different occasions under president reagan republicans voted to lift the debt ceiling because they knew we would default on our debts for the first time in history. jenna: so let's say we're moving towards this deadline, and we actually are -- >> we are. jenna: august 2nd, right? you've seen so many different numbers and you mentioned so many different issues, and i don't mean to gloss over that in generalities, but there's so much involved in this decision about the debt ceiling and also about cutting
this is about taking care of the wars in the iraq and afghanistan, it's about taking care of those bush tax cuts, it's about taking care of the medicare prescription drug bill. all those costs. and to say we're going to forget about those and worry about the future when our kids are the ones that will suffer is irresponsible. so i don't think the president would want to act unilaterally, nor do i think congress has to force the president into acting unilaterally. we can get this done. this is a...
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once they are in afghanistan. also, according to an audit by herbert richardson, the acting special inspector general for afghanistan reconstruction, contractors are not prohibited from using unlicensed middle men to pay subcontractors. richardson wrote in a statement, the u.s. poured billions of aid dollars into a country plagued by corruption, insurgency and the narcotics trade and it is essential that we use all available tools to ensure that u.s. dollars are protected from fraud and diversion to the insurgency. he said at the start u.s. agencies need to tighten up safeguards, how they pay for services, in afghanistan. patti ann: meanwhile the u.s. government is concerned that it is not getting enough cooperation from the afghan government? >> reporter: yes, for example, richardson found that when the u.s. treasury department tracked what it believes is a financial crime in afghanistan, and alerts the afghan attorney general's office, that office, quote, has not cooperated fully in prosecuting individuals. and,
once they are in afghanistan. also, according to an audit by herbert richardson, the acting special inspector general for afghanistan reconstruction, contractors are not prohibited from using unlicensed middle men to pay subcontractors. richardson wrote in a statement, the u.s. poured billions of aid dollars into a country plagued by corruption, insurgency and the narcotics trade and it is essential that we use all available tools to ensure that u.s. dollars are protected from fraud and...
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a brand-new report on the war in afghanistan finds that billions of taxpayer collars sent over there may have ended up in the hands of terrorists. jennifer griffin has that live from the pentagon. jennifer. >> reporter: hi, jon. well there are a lot of examples of corruption that has already been reported on in the past, but one principle example that this report outlines is remember at the kabul international airport, afghan vip's were literally putting millions of dollars in suitcases and taking them out of kabul to banks in the gulf states in dubai. the u.s. trerb kraoe ride to help the hamid karzai government crackdown on that, what happened according to those reports is the vip's bypassed the airport taking their vehicles on to the tarmac of the airport and onto the planes and loading the bags. it got so dangerous, there were so many vehicles on the tarmac that they scrapped the plans to looking into vip's bags. there are millions of dollars flowing out of the country through cab bull international airport, jon. jon: there is evidence that the aid money from the united states is
a brand-new report on the war in afghanistan finds that billions of taxpayer collars sent over there may have ended up in the hands of terrorists. jennifer griffin has that live from the pentagon. jennifer. >> reporter: hi, jon. well there are a lot of examples of corruption that has already been reported on in the past, but one principle example that this report outlines is remember at the kabul international airport, afghan vip's were literally putting millions of dollars in suitcases...
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we want to assure that if they are in afghanistan or iraq, the families don't worry about paying the mortgage on time. >> shannon: i understand that might be an area on capitol hill you have bipartisan support. >> yes. absolutely. social security would be covered because that comes from a different fund anyway. you have the social security covered. you can do this as a first priority. i think we should. i don't think people should be worried about payments in the categories where it is a life or death situation. >> shannon: you am quite sure that republicans understand how well it works when the democrat talk about the fact that maybe the checks won't go out. do you think it will take the conversation off the table if it passes? >> it should. we should haven't the president saying he might be able to send social security checks out. he can. of he absolutely can. it's a different fund. they know that. it is a scare tactic. we need to roll up the sleeves and get long-term answers and save social security extending the age three months a year. that is my proposal. we need to make sure p
we want to assure that if they are in afghanistan or iraq, the families don't worry about paying the mortgage on time. >> shannon: i understand that might be an area on capitol hill you have bipartisan support. >> yes. absolutely. social security would be covered because that comes from a different fund anyway. you have the social security covered. you can do this as a first priority. i think we should. i don't think people should be worried about payments in the categories where it...
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one afghanistan, one is called libya. the norwegian troops in both places. and finally, jenna, it's too early to tell, of course, who is behind this. this is just speculation. we are waiting for some claim of responsibility. we're also waiting for a news conference from police where at least we can get some of the basics here to find out what kind of bomb it was and, as you say, unclear right now whether it was one bomb or more. jenna? jenna: back to greg burke as we get more. brand new details by way of the associated press, and as you can understand it, the wires and reports changing minute by minute. but the associated press reporting that two people are confirmed dead by police in norway, 15 injured. more information as we get it. >>> in the meantime, president obama's holding a town hall calling for a balanced approach to reduce the deficit, the debt, the debt ceiling. we've got a lot to cover here today. rick: well said, jenna, that's not easy. jenna: hi, everybody, i'm jenna lee. rick: and i'm rick folbaum if in for jon. the amount of money the govern
one afghanistan, one is called libya. the norwegian troops in both places. and finally, jenna, it's too early to tell, of course, who is behind this. this is just speculation. we are waiting for some claim of responsibility. we're also waiting for a news conference from police where at least we can get some of the basics here to find out what kind of bomb it was and, as you say, unclear right now whether it was one bomb or more. jenna? jenna: back to greg burke as we get more. brand new details...
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what is happening there, doug. >> there is a lot of 0 carnage in afghanistan over the weekend and last week as well and the change of command ceremony went off as planned and u.s. and nato commanders wanting to send a message of stability an continuity, in the face of the taliban attacks and the general handing over the reins to john allen as he gives up the uniform he worked for more than 30 years to become the next director of the cia. and petraeus struck an optimistic tone today. . >> contrary to the forecasts of significant further increases in the attack levels this year the number of attacks the past two-and-a-half months was actually less than the number for the same period last year, even though there are over 80,000 more afghan and isap forces on the ground this year and we have been on the offensive. >> reporter: today's ceremony, one of several handovers in afghanistan this week. on sunday, nato led forces handed control to afghan forces in a central province marking the start of a gradual transition process, that will end with all foreign combat troops leaving afghanistan b
what is happening there, doug. >> there is a lot of 0 carnage in afghanistan over the weekend and last week as well and the change of command ceremony went off as planned and u.s. and nato commanders wanting to send a message of stability an continuity, in the face of the taliban attacks and the general handing over the reins to john allen as he gives up the uniform he worked for more than 30 years to become the next director of the cia. and petraeus struck an optimistic tone today. ....
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and nato-led troops in afghanistan today to marine corp general john allen in his first message to troops, general allen wrote, "without question, tough days remain. and the challenges will be many." russia has criticized the u.s. and other western countries for recognizing libya's rebel national transitionm counsel as the nation's legitimate government. russia's foreign minister says the west is taking sides in a civil war. russia also said it will not offer libyan leader muammar gaddafi asylum if he steps down. european union leaders say syria's government must immediately end the crackdown on opposition protests. if it is serious about holding a national dialogue on political reform. activists say the discovery this weekend set off a sectarian killing spree that left 30 people dead and n a sign the revolt is inflaming religious tensions there has been a flurry of new developments in the scandal surrounded the defunk "news of the world" tabloid with a death. investigation that stretched to scott lant yard and the government itself. that paper is owned by news corp, the parent company of
and nato-led troops in afghanistan today to marine corp general john allen in his first message to troops, general allen wrote, "without question, tough days remain. and the challenges will be many." russia has criticized the u.s. and other western countries for recognizing libya's rebel national transitionm counsel as the nation's legitimate government. russia's foreign minister says the west is taking sides in a civil war. russia also said it will not offer libyan leader muammar...
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i mean, spending at its height in iraq and afghanistan. in addition, if i understand correctly, $400 billion in interest that we would not need to pay because of the elimination of this phantom $1 trillion. so right from the beginning, you're starting about half as many, quote, unquote, cuts as nor reid suggests that are there. i think, you know, that's a nonstarter. if that passes the house, it passes because all the democrats pass and some republicans vote for it. i can't imagine that republicans would vote for something that's obviously that phony. >> there are doubts whether he could get the 60 votes needed to move it past in the democratic-controlled senate. >> if miles an hour mcconnell wants to draw the line on this issue he can prevent this plan from getting 60 votes. democrats need seven republicans to join them to get 60. republicans need 13 democrats. in this case, in today's politics, 13 is the smaller number. >> and let's remember why we're here. harry reid had an opportunity back in december of 2010 to bring up the debt limit
i mean, spending at its height in iraq and afghanistan. in addition, if i understand correctly, $400 billion in interest that we would not need to pay because of the elimination of this phantom $1 trillion. so right from the beginning, you're starting about half as many, quote, unquote, cuts as nor reid suggests that are there. i think, you know, that's a nonstarter. if that passes the house, it passes because all the democrats pass and some republicans vote for it. i can't imagine that...
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jenna: another big story today, a change of command in afghanistan. general john allen taking control over the international alliance over general david petraeus who will take charge of the cia soon. jennifer griffin is live at pentagon with more. >> reporter: the changes, the command ceremony in kabul took place with a backdrop of a slew of attacks on karzai's circle. there is a warning that the war in afghanistan is far from over. >> the job is most certainly not done. al-qaida operatives still plot and plan across the border in pakistan. the taliban still try to regain lost ground, still intimidate and still assassinate as we just saw this past week about the brutal killing of president karzai's brother. hamid karzai trying to climb into his brother's grave last week is facing almost daily challenges to his rule. his brother was assassinated by a trusted bodyguard. a former governor and loyal political adviser to karzai was assassinate ned his apartment by two taliban gunman wearing bomb belts. >> in crushing heat and in numbing cold from the deser
jenna: another big story today, a change of command in afghanistan. general john allen taking control over the international alliance over general david petraeus who will take charge of the cia soon. jennifer griffin is live at pentagon with more. >> reporter: the changes, the command ceremony in kabul took place with a backdrop of a slew of attacks on karzai's circle. there is a warning that the war in afghanistan is far from over. >> the job is most certainly not done. al-qaida...
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is our mission done in afghanistan? >> no. no. >> why not? we got the folks that did it? >> our mission is not to capture and bring bin laden to justice, although that was a big part of it, and i commend president bush and particularly president obama for having carried it out. that was one of the high points of his presidency for which he will always get credit historically, whether he wins or loses re-election, and it was a gutsy decision, and he carried it out 100%. the mission in afghanistan is to create a stability there so they don't threaten us in the future, so that doesn't become again the breeding ground for attacks on america the way it was in 2001. we're not there yet. afghanistan is in a state of chaos and confusion, and not in a state where we can say in good conscience where we put it in a situation where we don't need to be there to protect ourselves. and somebody has to explain to the american people that we need to be in that region of the world for the indefinite future, without time limits. far more effective would be you put in the troops and you don'
is our mission done in afghanistan? >> no. no. >> why not? we got the folks that did it? >> our mission is not to capture and bring bin laden to justice, although that was a big part of it, and i commend president bush and particularly president obama for having carried it out. that was one of the high points of his presidency for which he will always get credit historically, whether he wins or loses re-election, and it was a gutsy decision, and he carried it out 100%. the...
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i've been doing afghanistan and bin laden and -- the greek crisis. >> he has a point, if you go by the number of bills passed. through the first hall of this year, 2011, how many bills become law? 18. 15 of those laws named a building after somebody, extended an expiring law or appointed an official to the smithsonian institute. counting all them, 18 laws, this year's not so big number. >>> up next, kansas is inching closer to an all-out ban on abortion. the state approve as new set of regulations critics say is aimed at shutting down all abortion clinics. all three of them in the state. we're hear from both sides. >>> you're watching "hardball" on msnbc. i made. when i got my medicare card, i realized i needed an aarp... medicare supplement insurance card, too. medicare is one of the great things about turning 65, but it doesn't cover everything. in fact, it only pays up to 80% of your part b expenses. if you're already on or eligible for medicare, call now to find out how an aarp... medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company, helps cover some of
i've been doing afghanistan and bin laden and -- the greek crisis. >> he has a point, if you go by the number of bills passed. through the first hall of this year, 2011, how many bills become law? 18. 15 of those laws named a building after somebody, extended an expiring law or appointed an official to the smithsonian institute. counting all them, 18 laws, this year's not so big number. >>> up next, kansas is inching closer to an all-out ban on abortion. the state approve as new...
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recent attack in afghanistan, apparently placed in the turban of an attacker. they're innovative and for us to identify the trends we have to be equally as innovative and we're going to take risks and employing techniques, failure is not an option. and the terrorists detroiting to exploit us. >> gretchen: thank you. >> i appreciate it. >> gretchen: independent voters are getting sour on president obama. how will they react that he's teaming up with speaker boehner? and it was so powerful it split the jet in two, they all survived and much more incredible ahead this sunday morning. ♪ where do you go to find a busess backed by the superguarantee®? only& suonline.s®. on your phone. or in the book. go to superpages®. and let the good guys save the day. didn't really know what i wanted to do. didn't like high school. and then i met my teacher, mr. mccooey, and that click happened. i would never have even thought about going into the engineering field if it wasn't for these ap classes, these teachers and them helping me realize that this is a major calling in my
recent attack in afghanistan, apparently placed in the turban of an attacker. they're innovative and for us to identify the trends we have to be equally as innovative and we're going to take risks and employing techniques, failure is not an option. and the terrorists detroiting to exploit us. >> gretchen: thank you. >> i appreciate it. >> gretchen: independent voters are getting sour on president obama. how will they react that he's teaming up with speaker boehner? and it was...
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taxpayer money may be missing in afghanistan. our pentagon correspondent chris lawrence is here with the details. chris, how is this possible? >> reporter: because of a complete failure of oversight on the parts of the departments of treasury, state and defense, just a complete corruption in afghanistan. look, this federal audit shows that ten years into this war, the u.s. still only has limited visibility over what happens to billions of dollars once we send the money to afghanistan. the inspector general says that makes the money vulnerable not only to fraud but even worse being diverted to insurgents. the u.s. spent more than $70 billion on security and redevelopment in afghanistan, but, again, this audit shows as much as $10 million may be smuggled out of afghanistan every day. how does that happen? whenever afghan government officials leave the country no one checks how much money they are carrying with them. again the audit shows afghan officials have no plans to scan their cash through those electronic currency counters. t
taxpayer money may be missing in afghanistan. our pentagon correspondent chris lawrence is here with the details. chris, how is this possible? >> reporter: because of a complete failure of oversight on the parts of the departments of treasury, state and defense, just a complete corruption in afghanistan. look, this federal audit shows that ten years into this war, the u.s. still only has limited visibility over what happens to billions of dollars once we send the money to afghanistan. the...
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why do you lay all the debt at the feet of president obama when it's clear that the wars in iraq and afghanistan added to the nation's debt? >> it did. he's the commander in chief he could have removed our troops at any point in time. let's taung about barack obama's position in washington, d.c. during the six years he's been in washington our accumulated national debt has increased by more than 50 percent. what is president obama's response been now and as a senator to increase spending even more, not to cut it. but to increase spending even more. two years as a freshman senator, the debt goes up $400 billion because of deficits. two years when he's in the majority of the united states senate, it goes up $1.8 trillion. now it's up $2.8 trillion while he's president. >> you're simplifying the issues on the plate of the nation at that point. we were looking at going -- reverting into a depression at that point. everyone the fed chairman -- >> i disagree. >> do you have a degree in economics? >> yes, ma'am, i do. highest honors. >> okay. so you disagree with the fed chairman, ben bernanke. you dis
why do you lay all the debt at the feet of president obama when it's clear that the wars in iraq and afghanistan added to the nation's debt? >> it did. he's the commander in chief he could have removed our troops at any point in time. let's taung about barack obama's position in washington, d.c. during the six years he's been in washington our accumulated national debt has increased by more than 50 percent. what is president obama's response been now and as a senator to increase spending...
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we know that for afghanistan. as we begin to draw down, what thauz that mean for their path to peace and stability and progress? american businesses will tell you if we want them to invest there, they won't do it without the presence of american security, that's very important for our government to know. >> are american businesses really willing to invest in afghanistan? >> they are. one of the most recent projects is with kate spade. kate spade has gone into afghanistan in the last year. they surveyed what tn opportunities are there for marketable products and going te marketableable products, and afghanistan has the third largest producer of cashmere, and they want a product made by afghan women and sold in kate spade stores here and online and they are willing to invest a lot of money i might add, but they have the support of the u.s. government and the u.s. military to give them access. >> anita mcbride, what a pleasure to see you again. >> thank you so much. >>> what political stories will be making headlines
we know that for afghanistan. as we begin to draw down, what thauz that mean for their path to peace and stability and progress? american businesses will tell you if we want them to invest there, they won't do it without the presence of american security, that's very important for our government to know. >> are american businesses really willing to invest in afghanistan? >> they are. one of the most recent projects is with kate spade. kate spade has gone into afghanistan in the last...
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the afghanistan and iraq war is winding down. office management of budget office has looked at this and said if you take a trillion dollars and lower the debt and allow us to take additional $200 billion in interest savings, that is what we have in our bill. it's all been done by non-partisan congressional budget office. i can't imagine the fact they have voted for it, 230 republicans voted for that in the budget. 40 republicans voted for it. why is it something suddenly they don't want? (question is inaudible). >> your math is terrific. we got 60. the issue has been for a week or so a trigger. yes, the joint committee doesn't come up with a result. what should happen. we've been willing to say that we're happy if we don't arrive at the budget goals with the joint committee that certain things should happen. we've been willing to say that there could be a sequestration as long as it included revenues. it's unfair to make it a spending bill when we have billionaires and millionaires and corporate jets and yachts. the american peop
the afghanistan and iraq war is winding down. office management of budget office has looked at this and said if you take a trillion dollars and lower the debt and allow us to take additional $200 billion in interest savings, that is what we have in our bill. it's all been done by non-partisan congressional budget office. i can't imagine the fact they have voted for it, 230 republicans voted for that in the budget. 40 republicans voted for it. why is it something suddenly they don't want?...
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. >> the war in iraq and afghanistan, what would you do? >> help the iraqi security forces to govern that country. in afghanistan, we have to walk -- have to watch out for a precipitous withdrawal. it would create a new harbor for terrorism and they would lose their ability to stabilize the government. >> have you met world leaders? what has been your impression of them? >> i do not believe that is important. i look at the strategic interest of the united states and our allies and how we can mutually cooperate and mutually conflicts. >> finish this sentence. the state of the country today is what? >> an opportunity to be seized. big government and big banks have failed us. the crushing weight of the potential markets have yet to be fixed. that has helped to inhibit the ability of the american people to move forward. it is never a failure of the american people. that is not why we are having the difficulties we are having. it is the failure of governments to affect the larger institutions. for a period of time, you are about something that i
. >> the war in iraq and afghanistan, what would you do? >> help the iraqi security forces to govern that country. in afghanistan, we have to walk -- have to watch out for a precipitous withdrawal. it would create a new harbor for terrorism and they would lose their ability to stabilize the government. >> have you met world leaders? what has been your impression of them? >> i do not believe that is important. i look at the strategic interest of the united states and our...
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said for the country and the other large short term sort of driver of our deficit are the bush war in afghanistan and iraq and to his discredit obama is not moving in the right direction on those either unfortunately he's moved slightly out of the somewhat much quicker to draw down but i know what's not responsible for the deficit or social security medicaid are you know power grand things that are you know right wingers are taking big aim at unfortunately obama seems to be leaning in their direction in some ways it's it's confounding frankly we have a graphic here that lays. i believe we have yeah here it is ok this graphic shows the the yellow at the top is the amount of the debt that is contributed by the bush tax cuts and the red below that is the amount of the deficit that is contributed or rather this contributed by the wars in the blue below that tarp tarp fannie mae recovery and the large who actually is the economic downturn but the fact of the matter is that if we did away with the wars we could end the wars and if we did away with the bush tax cuts we'd have pretty much a balanced budg
said for the country and the other large short term sort of driver of our deficit are the bush war in afghanistan and iraq and to his discredit obama is not moving in the right direction on those either unfortunately he's moved slightly out of the somewhat much quicker to draw down but i know what's not responsible for the deficit or social security medicaid are you know power grand things that are you know right wingers are taking big aim at unfortunately obama seems to be leaning in their...
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and, it is a lot like afghanistan, prior to 9/11. how do we best deal with this threat, sir? >> well, i think, you know, two things, one is we have to really learn to be vigilant here at home, the good news is that the homegrown guys are less likely to use chemical or nuclear weapons and just like we saw in norway, you can have one crazy person with a gun, kill almost 100 people and, so, we have to be vigilant here at home and second thing, we have to work better at putting pressure on the regimes overseas and ungoverned territories, al-shabab and followers have essentially taken over half of somalia and the rest of it is falling apart and millions are starving and we have piracy issues and other security issues and there are ties to yemen and the al qaeda leadership there and the other thing we need to do is work closely with our allies in trying to figure out as we pull down in iraq and afghanistan, how are we going to keep the pressure on in places like yemen and afghanistan and somalia. bill: okay. mike, thank you. you know, we talked a lot about the u.s. threat but the c
and, it is a lot like afghanistan, prior to 9/11. how do we best deal with this threat, sir? >> well, i think, you know, two things, one is we have to really learn to be vigilant here at home, the good news is that the homegrown guys are less likely to use chemical or nuclear weapons and just like we saw in norway, you can have one crazy person with a gun, kill almost 100 people and, so, we have to be vigilant here at home and second thing, we have to work better at putting pressure on...
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matter of national security, the condition of poor and, whoing people, as much as iraq and as much as afghanistan. barack obama does not make that a priority. that's why i'm deeply disappointed. >> why is he not prioritizing this? >> he has the wrong team. he has the wrong people around him. i heard you say he is very calm and serene. i love calmness. but when people i am concerned about is catching hell, which is working people of all colors, poor people of all colors, then you ought to have a state of emergency. fdr had a state of emergency. abraham lincoln, state of emergency. lbj, our white brother from jim crow, texas, has a state of emergency in regard to black america. he had a conscience. >> let me ask you a question. does the african-american community in america, generally do you think, does it feel particularly let down because he is african-american that you feel he is not doing enough for other african-americans? many of whom are poor? >> i think brother tavis said it well. i think there's an ambivalence in black america. black people for the most part have a deep sense of protection
matter of national security, the condition of poor and, whoing people, as much as iraq and as much as afghanistan. barack obama does not make that a priority. that's why i'm deeply disappointed. >> why is he not prioritizing this? >> he has the wrong team. he has the wrong people around him. i heard you say he is very calm and serene. i love calmness. but when people i am concerned about is catching hell, which is working people of all colors, poor people of all colors, then you...
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following right now, bill, that could include the involvement by the norwegian military in actions in afghanistan. there are norwegian soldiers there, there is an al-qaeda official from the northern part of iraq that sought sanctuary in norway and perhaps even more disturbing is the report that just in the past year one of the main newspapers of norway which does have offices in that central area of oslo they, too, printed as other newspapers did in europe these cartoons of the prophet mohamed of the muslim faith, and as we all know, that has been a major bone of contention. this is what we're following right now, bill. bill: all right, greg, thank you. that tangled wreckage of a car might be a precious clue in all of this, and it might be the clue or not. it's not clear what threats were leveled against the government or prime minister, but we're working through all that. it is breaking news in oslo, norway, here on america's "amers newsroom." patti ann: brian terry was gunned down with a weapon the feds were supposed to be tracking, and terry's cousin gave some emotional testimony on capitol hi
following right now, bill, that could include the involvement by the norwegian military in actions in afghanistan. there are norwegian soldiers there, there is an al-qaeda official from the northern part of iraq that sought sanctuary in norway and perhaps even more disturbing is the report that just in the past year one of the main newspapers of norway which does have offices in that central area of oslo they, too, printed as other newspapers did in europe these cartoons of the prophet mohamed...
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. >>> hello, here's what's happen ppg the top military commander arrived in afghanistan on an unannounced visit reassuring leaders thereafter a string of high profile attacks and assassinations. here at home the obama add 3i7b strags struck a deal with u.s. auto makers to more than double fuel efficiency standards it 54.5 gal miles a gallon by the year 2055. >>> a dismal week on wall street as washington wrestled with the debt ceiling debit and new reports showed anemic economic reports over the last six months. now back it "hardball." now back to "hardball." >>> welcome back to "hardball." watching the battle on capitol hill these past few weeks. outside interest groups have also been eager to throw stones at their opponents in this debt fight. millions of dollars spent on ad buys attacking the president, but if the country defaults and the economy suffers, don't the president's re-election chances suffer as well? eugene robinson is an nbc political analyst and an associate editor and columnist at "the washington post" as well as an msnbc analyst. >> the fact is if good things happen whe
. >>> hello, here's what's happen ppg the top military commander arrived in afghanistan on an unannounced visit reassuring leaders thereafter a string of high profile attacks and assassinations. here at home the obama add 3i7b strags struck a deal with u.s. auto makers to more than double fuel efficiency standards it 54.5 gal miles a gallon by the year 2055. >>> a dismal week on wall street as washington wrestled with the debt ceiling debit and new reports showed anemic...
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in afghanistan. and, iraq. and the administration still believes they can negotiate an end to iran's nuclear weapons program. and i think this demonstrates just how good the iranians are, at deceiving us and for how long they have been able to do it. >> it is interesting when we're so focused on domestic issues, there is always something overseas you can be missing in the news cycle. and, let's talk about the war on terror. what does it tell us? the relationship, this time? what does it tell us about where we are, in the war on terror? and whether or not we're winning? >> you know, the rest of the world isn't going to wait around for us to get our economic house in order. and, this is a good example of it. the idea that because usama bin laden has been killed, which is an unmitigated good thing, for america and civilization, that that means somehow, al qaeda has been weakened and this war on terror is nearly over and the declaration by the treasury department is conclusive evidence to the contrary. al qaeda mas
in afghanistan. and, iraq. and the administration still believes they can negotiate an end to iran's nuclear weapons program. and i think this demonstrates just how good the iranians are, at deceiving us and for how long they have been able to do it. >> it is interesting when we're so focused on domestic issues, there is always something overseas you can be missing in the news cycle. and, let's talk about the war on terror. what does it tell us? the relationship, this time? what does it...
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it would have negative effects on jobs in baghdad, kabul, kandahar, in other parts of the iraq and afghanistan. and the irony of course is that we are being told that we are in this terrible crisis, when the republicans brought out a military bill that increased the military by $17 billion, gives more money to iraq and afghanistan, and i have to say i am very nervous that the president might agree to keep troops in iraq next year, which is longer than george bush wanted to keep them there. so, yeah, i think we can in the short-term save a lot of money by bringing the troops home with no negative job impact. but to get back to your question, what mr. bernanke said correctly is, yes, over the long-term, you should have a plan for deficit reduction from both higher taxes in my judgment and spending cuts. but in the short-term, if you were to do that, you would slow down the recovery. and that's why it's a timing issue. >> in terms of what you just said there about defense cuts, and what might be possible in this congress, i feel like the things that i have heard from republicans that seem like th
it would have negative effects on jobs in baghdad, kabul, kandahar, in other parts of the iraq and afghanistan. and the irony of course is that we are being told that we are in this terrible crisis, when the republicans brought out a military bill that increased the military by $17 billion, gives more money to iraq and afghanistan, and i have to say i am very nervous that the president might agree to keep troops in iraq next year, which is longer than george bush wanted to keep them there. so,...
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iraq, afghanistan. they are almost imperceptible. i think people don't know what dodd-frank is about. the economy is front and center. the president will be judged on his results. his results are rot ton. if we see a rebound before the election, great. you can't say we've done these great things people don't really care about. obama care is something that hasn't pleased the country. they have to run on his record. right now, that's a problem. host: back to the phone, kentucky in mississippi. you there? caller: my comment is about cutting the debt. to me, to cut the debt is to raise revenue. they've come up with a figure of $3 trillion $4 trillion. >> why can't they give $2 trillion to each. let them cut what they want. they both would have the same amount of responsibility. start there. both parties will have the same amount of responsibility. guest: the point is that both sides need to give a little bit. the president is saying i'm waiting for a yes on something. people view the president as more willing to comprimise. this whole po
iraq, afghanistan. they are almost imperceptible. i think people don't know what dodd-frank is about. the economy is front and center. the president will be judged on his results. his results are rot ton. if we see a rebound before the election, great. you can't say we've done these great things people don't really care about. obama care is something that hasn't pleased the country. they have to run on his record. right now, that's a problem. host: back to the phone, kentucky in mississippi....
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in afghanistan. >> and that's not all. take a look at the government checks and electronic payments that went out in the month of june. medicare claims are at the top of the list. they accounted for 100 million checks, 70 million of those to doctors, the rest to other providers, like hospitals and labs. second on the list, the category that you're hearing most about, more than 56 million social security payments were made in june. also in the top five, more than 6 million checks and payments to active duty and retired defense personnel. there's worry that the sheer number of payments going out have dulled lawmakers and agencies in washington to the reality of exactly what the government is spending. >> i don't believe that there really is a realization that this is really real money. one of the basic prerequisites of the government is a payment from the government. there isn't a stop payment capability. it's not like a commercial check that can be stopped. >> that means a government-issued check is as good as cash. if you
in afghanistan. >> and that's not all. take a look at the government checks and electronic payments that went out in the month of june. medicare claims are at the top of the list. they accounted for 100 million checks, 70 million of those to doctors, the rest to other providers, like hospitals and labs. second on the list, the category that you're hearing most about, more than 56 million social security payments were made in june. also in the top five, more than 6 million checks and...
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includes cuts but nothing to entitlements, and savings in part from ending the wars eventually in iraq and afghanistan, about a trillion there. highly questionable. speaker boehner's plan has two steps in it. totals $1.2 trillion in cuts. has a six to nine month debt ceiling and cuts and another debt ceiling mechanism next year sometime.ç david, seems like the president is basically saying all i want, get this out of the way before the incomes election. in that interest i'll give you what you want, basically? >> the democrats, without, and republican. s have drawn a line in the sand. problem is, it's inside it's republican tent. it's basically up to the bedroom. saying, we'll given you cuts, and part of reid's plan is $1.2 trillion in defense and non-defense discretionary cuts. we don't know what the cuts will be. may be real cuts in real problems, that the president and other democrats care a lot about. they have basically yielded to republicans on a big conceptual point. linking, lifting the debt ceiling to spending cuts and -- >> two things republicans still want. a dollar for dollar cut in spend
includes cuts but nothing to entitlements, and savings in part from ending the wars eventually in iraq and afghanistan, about a trillion there. highly questionable. speaker boehner's plan has two steps in it. totals $1.2 trillion in cuts. has a six to nine month debt ceiling and cuts and another debt ceiling mechanism next year sometime.ç david, seems like the president is basically saying all i want, get this out of the way before the incomes election. in that interest i'll give you what you...
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we'll tell you what terrorism has to do the world headlines now, another one of southern afghanistan's powerbrokers was killed today by a suicide bomber. the assassination of kandahar's mayor was the third killing in the last two weeks. the taliban has claimed responsibility for all three attacks. >>> libyan rebels received a diplomatic boost today with recognition from great britain. the conflict there in libya has gone under the public's radar recently because of more pressing economic concerns here in washington. but national cute correspondent jennifer griffin tells us -- national security correspondent jennifer griffin tells the nato mission is still unaccomplished. >> this is a video broadcast on libya state television tuesday of the pan am lockerbie bomber rallying support for libyan leader muammar qaddafi in downtown tripoli. the lockerbie bomber was released on compassionate grounds by a scottish judge two years ago, because he was reportedly dying of cancer. but he's still standing, as is muammar qaddafi, five months after the start of an operation the white house said would
we'll tell you what terrorism has to do the world headlines now, another one of southern afghanistan's powerbrokers was killed today by a suicide bomber. the assassination of kandahar's mayor was the third killing in the last two weeks. the taliban has claimed responsibility for all three attacks. >>> libyan rebels received a diplomatic boost today with recognition from great britain. the conflict there in libya has gone under the public's radar recently because of more pressing...
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whether it's to reduce troop levels in afghanistan or work out this budget deal. >> you just implied something. a leader, to lead well, has to have followers. and right now, congress is a pretty cantankerous bunch. it's hard to lead under those circumstances. that said, i think david ignatius is on to something very important. the way this president has chosen to lead consistently right from the beginning does not fit the normal pattern we have seen in the past, after all, his formative experience as a leader was as a community organizer, and as a community organizer, you tend to lead from behind, the famous phrase now, you tend to herd people along, and that's a style he brought to the white house. it doesn't fit our stereo typical sense or the hunger people have for a leader who is out front, visionary, brave, that says this is where we ought to go and fights in the arena to get it done. and americans have had a very hard time adjusting to this very different style, which was i thought exemplified by that clip that david ignatius pointed out. >> what is it in his style, character,
whether it's to reduce troop levels in afghanistan or work out this budget deal. >> you just implied something. a leader, to lead well, has to have followers. and right now, congress is a pretty cantankerous bunch. it's hard to lead under those circumstances. that said, i think david ignatius is on to something very important. the way this president has chosen to lead consistently right from the beginning does not fit the normal pattern we have seen in the past, after all, his formative...
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he made headlines in 2009 refusing to deploy to afghanistan. >> i don't want to get deployed because i believe i can't both deploy and be a muslim. >> abdo was facing court-martial on child pornography charges when he went awol from fort campbell, kentucky. they alerted police that he had been actly suspiciously. hasan bought weapons before his alleged shooting spree. they think he planned the attack alone and they're no longer in danger. >> we today would have been giving you a different briefing. >> the gun store clerk that tipped off police, former marine and police officer ebert, that guy there live will join us a few minutes from now. he's the guy responsible for turning him in. beach goers are enjoying the surf as don makes landfall in texas. it's expected to make landfall in corpus krsy area later tonight or tomorrow morning. they are welcoming this store with open arms. don is expected to bring much needed rain to that state. community out in force looking for a missing 11-year-old girl. she was reported missing from her northern new hampshire home tuesday morning. now, polic
he made headlines in 2009 refusing to deploy to afghanistan. >> i don't want to get deployed because i believe i can't both deploy and be a muslim. >> abdo was facing court-martial on child pornography charges when he went awol from fort campbell, kentucky. they alerted police that he had been actly suspiciously. hasan bought weapons before his alleged shooting spree. they think he planned the attack alone and they're no longer in danger. >> we today would have been giving you...
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those individuals may include victim of the 777 subway bombings, families of soldiers killed in afghanistan and possibly 9/11 victims. as a result of the scandal, "news of the world" was shut down after last sunday's edition was printed. 200 people lost their jobs but rebecca brooks the woman who ran the paper at the time, milly dowler's phone was hacked was still employed at the head of rupert murdock british newspapers there was public pressure on her to go. today she went. in a statement, brooks said as chief executive of the company i feel a deep sense of responsibility for the people we have hurt. i want to reiterate how sorry i am for what we now know to have taken place." the latest resignation comes from dow jones ceo les hinton a long time news corp executive who ran the british newspaper group in much of the time of the hacking. murdock said he accepted the resignation with a heavy heart saying few people had given more to the cane than les hinton in london, amy kellogg, fox news. >> bret: more on this story with the panel. the astronauts aboard the space station got up a little e
those individuals may include victim of the 777 subway bombings, families of soldiers killed in afghanistan and possibly 9/11 victims. as a result of the scandal, "news of the world" was shut down after last sunday's edition was printed. 200 people lost their jobs but rebecca brooks the woman who ran the paper at the time, milly dowler's phone was hacked was still employed at the head of rupert murdock british newspapers there was public pressure on her to go. today she went. in a...
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. >> neil: and the trillions they are talking about is baked into the cake with iraq and afghanistan. >> if i was a betting guy, they have to downgrade. >> neil: interesting. the pressure is on this gentlemen, john boehner, reacting to the president signing onboard harry reid's plan. >> our members have a two-step approach, cutting, spending and avoiding an economic collapse as a result of a default. we believe it is a responsible common sense plan that meets our obligations to the american people. and preserves the full, faith and credit of the united states government. this legislation reflects a bipartisan negotiation over the weekend. with our colleagues in the senate. as a result, of this bipartisan negotiation, i would call this plan less than perfect. but, it does ensure that the spending cuts will be greater than the hike in the debt limit. secondly, there are no tax increases that are part of this plan. it is not cut, cap and balance, but it is built on the principles of cut, cap and balance, that can pass the united states senate, as well as the united states house. time is
. >> neil: and the trillions they are talking about is baked into the cake with iraq and afghanistan. >> if i was a betting guy, they have to downgrade. >> neil: interesting. the pressure is on this gentlemen, john boehner, reacting to the president signing onboard harry reid's plan. >> our members have a two-step approach, cutting, spending and avoiding an economic collapse as a result of a default. we believe it is a responsible common sense plan that meets our...
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killing of osama bin laden has certainly hurt the al-qaeda terrorist organization, in pakistan and afghanistan. but anwar al-awlaki is alive and well in yemen and he is planning additional attacks against americans. is the franchise there now the lead in al-qaeda and how dangerous and what can we do? >> al-qaeda is somewhat diffuse in the islamist most of the time. yemen a fertile ground. it does seem to be emerging as headquarters of sorts. yemen as a state doesn't exist right now. it was an iffy topic when it had a president but it essentially doesn't right now. so al-qaeda finding an open door. president obama came out and said the tide of war is receding but nobody gave that message to the islamist terrorists. we this had the christmas day bombing, not the one on the flight but the on other one on fed ex shipments. >> gregg: speaking of terrorists let's talk about libya and moammar khadafy who says he is willing to talk to america but he refuses to give up his position. so what is the point of talking to the guy? >> this has been going for five months. people have said that khadafy is losi
killing of osama bin laden has certainly hurt the al-qaeda terrorist organization, in pakistan and afghanistan. but anwar al-awlaki is alive and well in yemen and he is planning additional attacks against americans. is the franchise there now the lead in al-qaeda and how dangerous and what can we do? >> al-qaeda is somewhat diffuse in the islamist most of the time. yemen a fertile ground. it does seem to be emerging as headquarters of sorts. yemen as a state doesn't exist right now. it...
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been great allies of the united states with troops on the ground right new in afghanistan and i spoke to a very senior norwegian government official and he described the man as a neonazi and they are finding it very difficult to believe this was just his work alone. this was a very sophisticated and coordinated attack, and in addition to the shooting, they think maybe two or three bombs in the city center and powerful bombs. the truck bomb from the building and friends i talked to in oslo say the radius went out to 1,000 meters that windows were sheeterred and they believe there was a second bomb not baitsment of the building where the prime minister's office was so very sophisticated and well coordinated attack. >>clayton: an attempt to assassinate the prime minister there who was expected to give a talk, today, at the youth camp where we hear reports that there could have been other bomb materials found at the catch, as well. when you talk about "naive." what do you mean? >>guest: very good and humble "for my people" and one of the best allies we have, but a very humble people. they
been great allies of the united states with troops on the ground right new in afghanistan and i spoke to a very senior norwegian government official and he described the man as a neonazi and they are finding it very difficult to believe this was just his work alone. this was a very sophisticated and coordinated attack, and in addition to the shooting, they think maybe two or three bombs in the city center and powerful bombs. the truck bomb from the building and friends i talked to in oslo say...
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american troops in afghanistan worried about how the debt talks standoff could impact their families with the deal doesn't happen by tuesday and federal employees stop getting paid. soldiers asked admiral mike mullen if they will still get their pay checks. he said honestly he just doesn't know what will happen. >>> mullen was meeting with service men and women at bases in southern afghanistan. >> but the money does seem to be flowing in iraq and in ways that are taking the american taxpayer for a ride. a new report by a special inspector shows that contractors are overbilling the government by as much as 12,000%. in one case a sub contractor charged the pentagon 900 bucks for a $7 switch. and the audit comes as violence in iraq is surging. steve centanni is live for us in washington. so steve, first, what about the allegations that iraq is not any safer than it was a year ago? >> well, heather, that is the claim of the inspector general for iraq reconstruction in a scathing report just released he says "iraq remains an extraordinarily dangerous place to work. it is less safe in my j
american troops in afghanistan worried about how the debt talks standoff could impact their families with the deal doesn't happen by tuesday and federal employees stop getting paid. soldiers asked admiral mike mullen if they will still get their pay checks. he said honestly he just doesn't know what will happen. >>> mullen was meeting with service men and women at bases in southern afghanistan. >> but the money does seem to be flowing in iraq and in ways that are taking the...
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is afghanistan ready to control its own destiny? and, disturbing new information on how second-hand smoke may affect your kids. dr. isadore rosenfeld is here with his sund"sunday house calld that is next. you could save a bundle with geico's multi-policy discount. geico, saving people money on more than just car insurance. ♪ geico, saving people money on more than just car insurance. morning starts with arthritis pain... that's two pills before the first bell. [ bell rings ] it's time for recess... and more pills. afternoon art starts and so does her knee pain, that's two more pills. almost ne, but hang on... her doctor recommended aleve cause it can relieve pain all day with just two pills. this is lisa... who switched to aleve and fewer pills for a day free of pain. and get the all day pain relief oaleve in liquid gels. >> jamie: welcome back, here's the headlines we're following for you, this hour. casey anthony, a free woman. she emerged from an orlando jail 12 days after a jury acquit her the death of her two-year-old daughte
is afghanistan ready to control its own destiny? and, disturbing new information on how second-hand smoke may affect your kids. dr. isadore rosenfeld is here with his sund"sunday house calld that is next. you could save a bundle with geico's multi-policy discount. geico, saving people money on more than just car insurance. ♪ geico, saving people money on more than just car insurance. morning starts with arthritis pain... that's two pills before the first bell. [ bell rings ] it's time...
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Jul 7, 2011
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we have an iraq war, which is still there, an afghanistan war that has been beefed up, what's good tweeter, twitter, tweeting. >> not just that, chris, but a lot of the appeal about president obama in 2008 was he was new and fresh and gave a chance to americans to write history. that happened. how do you make history twice, the answer is you don't. he has to find a way to fire up the base once again. ultimately, his message if the economy doesn't improve is the other guys will make it worse. look at their policies and views. >> john, you're key. i want to end it with that note. it's brilliant. it's about the next four years, it's not the blame game. who do you have confidence in to lead the country out of the situation we are now. thank you so much jonathan and alex wagner for tutoring me rather crudely. let me finish with -- we're going to have a birthday tribute to nancy reagan for the reasons she was a moderating force on that man next to her. you're watching "hardball." >>> let me finish with a birthday tribute to an american who made a difference. her name is nancy reagan. she was our
we have an iraq war, which is still there, an afghanistan war that has been beefed up, what's good tweeter, twitter, tweeting. >> not just that, chris, but a lot of the appeal about president obama in 2008 was he was new and fresh and gave a chance to americans to write history. that happened. how do you make history twice, the answer is you don't. he has to find a way to fire up the base once again. ultimately, his message if the economy doesn't improve is the other guys will make it...